John Hurt comes to the NUA Gallery for a chat on how his best thoughts
are generated in the bathroom, and his first hand experience of the
contemporary creative industry.
As John enters the room, Emma and I are
undeniably nervous, and this nervousness manifests itself in different ways. I,
regretting the coffee I just drank and Emma tapping her foot restlessly on the
wooden floorboards. I grin widely at John as he wanders in, he looking a bit
taken aback at the manic smile I just brandished at him.
As Hurt takes a seat at our little
conference table, his face lights up at the mixed tray of biscuits placed in
front of him, “oooh, choccie biccies!”
I fumble with the Dictaphone, attaching the
wind muffler to the Dictaphone with a false lustre of professionalism, “surely
you don’t need that? There’s no wind.” John Hurt recommends, I burble something
inaudible in response.
Briefly John lays down the law on his
preferred style of interview etiquette, he expects this to be like a casual
chat or a debate, as opposed to a forty five minute long blunt question-answer
firing, and me and Emma could not agree more with his wishes.
John notices his bracelets jangling as he
gesticulates expressively, and considerately removes them to stop the noise
being picked up on the due recording. In fact, John is quite a snappy dresser
overall. He wears a marine blue shirt, a intricately woven green scarf that
hangs loosely, wrapped up in a oversized, tweed pea coat.
The record button is gingerly switched on
and I croak my first question to John, and we are first introduced to the
actors careful and considered thought process, which is clearly visible on the
engrained lines on his face, he answers each question slowly and deliberately,
picking apart alternatives and arguments carefully.
How did becoming
NUA’s provost and soon-to-be chancellor come about?
Well it came about basically because I got a letter from
John Last asking me if I’d like to do that, I was naturally somewhat flattered
and at the same time was rather excited by the idea because my origins were,
before I became an actor, I was at art school myself in Grimsby and St Martins
Art School in London. I tried to paint all through my life, but I cant really call
myself a painter because I believe if you’re going to be a painter you should
be painting well, all the time. I don’t paint as a hobby, I paint as
meaningfully, I hope, as I act. But you need to practice. And I don’t get
enough of that really. So I was intrigued by the whole idea, and I think John
is a very live wire. Even though “chancellor” is just a title in a sense, I
don’t have any power, but I do have the ability to make contributions and say
what I think. It is something that interests me hugely, and it still remains to
be seen whether I will be of any use or not!
So could you say it
is a rewarding role as a former art student?
Well that again, remains to be seen. I hope it will be, and
I think it will be, I am definitely encouraged by John Last. He wants comment
and he wants input, and I think I could provide a certain amount of that. The
driving force of the whole thing is the vice chancellor, the principal.
Although on the other hand I want to listen to the students and understand
them. It’s a difficult situation because all students by the nature of being
students, and by being a new generation, believe that they’re right. So they’re
always going to look at you antagonistically and think, “what are you trying to
tell us? You’ve had your chance!” Where I think the difficulty will lie will be
where people will think they can almost, transcend, being a link in the chain.
That’s something you can’t transcend. Anything that is artistic, or scientific
for that matter, exists as a result of it’s history. It’s prophetic, it allows
a platform to the future, and therefore you are very much a link in the chain.
And I hope I can avoid any kind of dictatorial behaviour, because my business
is to fan the flames of the enthusiasm of the student band. I’d like to create
an atmosphere of self-criticism as well, and criticism between students. I
would like to see us get away from what has been prevalent in teaching
nowadays, which is the notion that everyone has to be pleased. You should be
able to say, as a student, “I’ve made this, I know its not good enough, I
haven’t achieved what I set out to achieve” and in that knowledge you can help
to shape yourself and give you well, further places to go.
So do you think
constructive criticism is a good method to move yourself forward as an artist?
Well yes, a certain amount of instructed criticism is a good
thing. I think that debate amongst students is a very good thing also. Topics
should be fiercely debated, anything that can bring out those thoughts that one
makes in the bathroom, drawing those thoughts out more and more. You sort of
think, “if only I could do what I think when I’m in the bathroom” a technique
to get these things out of your head, a freeing of your abilities you know, to
get freedom from these inhibitions as much as possible.
Did you always create
art growing up?
Yeah I think I probably crave
art. Maybe due to the fact I was very much bought up without it. I was bought up in a vicarage, well my mother
was a draughtsman, but that’s a very different type of drawing, its like
engineering drawing. My father was an engineer before he took the holy orders.
But I can say my parents were not inclined to the visual arts at all. But I
don’t think I craved art as a boy, I don’t think I understood it yet. Going to
art school brought things out in me I didn’t even know existed, I learnt a lot
philosophically and in terms of the business side of art. Conceptual art didn’t
really exist at that time, I think its often an excuse. But sometimes it can be
really fascinating, it can lead to other things, I don’t know. To me, it’s a
very tricky area. I come into the art school world quite diffident about it,
I’m not dictatorial about it. I cant be, its not in my nature, it’s not what I
know, I don’t know enough.
Are there any modern
artists you admire?
The most influential artist for me is Edvard Munch. And I
don’t just mean the famous “Scream”, even some of his more “conventional”
works. I do generally like and lean towards emotional paintings. But one has to
be very careful that emotional, abstract paintings are not just an excuse for
not drawing. I think drawing is incredibly important because it comes into
everything, it certainly comes into conceptual art. It’s a very broad subject,
drawing. But drawing is essentially making a mark, that could be totally unique
and unlike any other mark. The thing about drawing is that you can really work
at it as well, you could spend say, two terms drawing from casts of objects, and
get really good at it in that amount of time. But trying to understand
something that is in front of you, as a three dimensional piece, is a lifetmes
work really, you may never stop.
Did you visit the
Munch exhibition at the Tate Modern?
Yes, I did.
Did you like it?
Oh yes, it was wonderful. That’s what I mean about the
ephemerality of fine art, you cant apply it. It is what it is. I do wonder
where we are though, in the fine arts. And to be honest I don’t think the art
world knows quite where it is going. It’s a big, fabulous, massive problem for
you lot to work out!
We’ve seen parts of
Fine Art merged into other medias, have you seen “Shame” by Steve McQueen?
Yes I have, McQueen is an interesting man too, he’s moved
into film. And he’s fairly submerged in it now, especially after “Hunger”,
which I feel broke some barriers and was quite brilliant in many ways. But
nobody went to see it, its so expensive to make a film. And if nobody goes to
see it, you would wonder if there was something you weren’t doing that is
enticing people to come and see it, is it just that the audience is not ready
for it? How do you lead people to see something like that? I don’t know.
Maybe its all about
one person breaking a few rules, and then you have to have another filmmaker
jump on the bandwagon with that, it’s like a domino effect.
Yes, and make it palletable, in a sense. That’s happened
throughout history. It’s unfortunate to be the man who comes first. Fine art is
a difficult road though, in fact, my son is a painter. You’ve chosen just about
the most difficult thing to do. It is a sensationally rocky road, and boy, do
you have to be prepared for it. We come from reasonally petit-bourgeois
backgrounds, and in order to be a painter, one has to forget that and live
rougher. I tell you, you are going to be without comforts when it comes to
painting. And it’s something you’re going to have to accept if you want to be a
Fine Artist. It’s a really tricky old road, and I wouldn’t advise anyone to go
into it. I wouldn’t advise anyone, except maybe if they were really, totally,
dedicated and really have a talent and know they have this talent, and if they
believe they have something to say. It’s not something you toy with.
It’s often hard for
undergraduate students to really know what they want to “do”, did you find the
path to your true occupation in life was a rocky one?
Well, yes! I wasn’t particularly academic at school myself,
and when I told my parents I wanted to be an actor, well, that was completely-
well they loved the theatre. But they couldn’t perceive me as one of them. They couldn’t see me up there on
stage. It just wasn’t pheasable, but then again my father was a clergyman so
you cant be more odd than that! But it was expected of me to get an art degree,
then proceed onto teaching, and I could paint, I made painting after painting
and I really enjoyed the process of painting. But I couldn’t get it out of my
head that this wasn’t quite what I wanted to do. So I made the jump, and that
was quite a traumatic period of my life. We all go through those, I think.
Could you say your
creativity manifested itself in a dramatic environment when you made that
change from Fine Art to Dramatic Art?
Well before I got into the film industry I had to work my
way up on the stage as a theatre actor, and honestly I never expected to make
films, I became an actor because I wanted to act, and I thought this would
always be on stage. I asked myself would I be prepared to be in repertory for
the rest of my life and the answer was yes. And I think that’s kind of
necessary, it’s a part of the journey, so to speak. And it was necessary for me
to know that about myself as well. But things worked out better than that, I’ve
been able to work on film, stage, television and radio. I find that one of the
joys of being a British actor is that all of these aspects of media are
available in London. And right now, I don’t think film knows what it’s doing.
The part of film that is interesting me is the independent market. The studios
really don’t know what they’re doing. But still, it’s not easy. But it never
is.
Did you have quite a
wild student life whilst you were studying art?
I didn’t have a particularly wild time at art school, I
didn’t really have the money above everything else. But St. Martins did provide
some of the best parties in London, well St. Martins and the Royal College [of
art].
Do you have any funny
or embarrassing stories?
Well I remember turning up to one party and nobody had any
clothes on at all! In that kind of situation you either leave or stay and I
stayed.
Was that the sixties
by any chance?
Nearly, it was 1959. The fifties were drab in comparison,
this country was penniless. You would only need to look at the photographs to
see what people were wearing, they’d look as though they had all been to the
thrift shop. Even the top boys would be in crumpled suits. And its funny
because I think people today try to effect this look through their fashions,
and I don’t think you really can effect that because these people were trying
to look as good as they could. There was no money. Society is far better off
now than it was then, but I don’t know if we’re any happier.
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| John looking moodily into the distance. Photo Credit to Roseanna Hanson at Dozyphoto |
It’s a different kind
of happiness, a secure happiness in which we feel safe. But through this
security I don’t think we’re as free as we were at another point in history.
And I don’t know if we really have the right to feel that
safety. We all seem to feel reasonably safe in a very unsafe period of time.
On that sort of
topic, of the UK’s economy; how do you feel about the arts cuts that are meant
to be enforced in the future?
Oooh that’s a very tricky one.. Well I think certain things
would feel the pinch. You might not be able to have tables like this [the table
we are sat at], you may have to make do with something else. Frankly I don’t
think it’s going to make any difference to the creativity. Obviously one wants
to get as much as you can, and there would be things you wouldn’t be able to
do, you wouldn’t be able to have the chocolate biscuits [the chocolate biscuits
on the table]. Thankyou very much [he takes a chocolate biscuit]. It would make
a difference to the computerized side of the art world, you wouldn’t be able to
provide so many shiny Macs. Well back in the day we lived in real poverty, and
no one really complained about it. I want to avoid the whole “back in my day”
talk [we all laugh] but that’s the way it was and you didn’t really complain about
it. And there was far less money in the arts then.
So you could argue
that lack of funding could encourage creativity in a way?
I think that’s arguable, yeah! We’ve got to let them think
that it’s important that we stay important.
Do you think a lot of
people maybe don’t take art that seriously, because it’s less academic?
No, if push comes to shove if you have a piece of paper and
a pencil then you will be alright! And maybe some sort of paint? Mind you,
paint is so expensive now. Then again, you can make your own paint. But now a
lot of art isn’t to do with paint, paint is a bit of an odd commodity in some
people’s minds isn’t it? And naturally, with the advent of the electronic
world, that’s really going to change things. I mean, photography changed things
like crazy at one stage. But um- electronics have changed things hugely. And
presumably will continue to do so. I don’t know what the future of paint is!
As our uni used to be
Norwich School of Painting, we have a lot of painters here. Theres a whole
floor of them in fact.
Really? I wouldn’t have thought so from the last exhibition,
I thought Fine Art was the least well represented. And oddly enough I thought
Film was rather poor. Animation was interesting, but you would expect that from
an arts school. But Film I thought was- by no means, on top or ahead of it. I
thought- hello. We could help here a bit! [he pauses] What do you think about
paint? Do you think its like, an illuminated Print? Its had it’s day?
I don’t know I think
the boundaries between practices are blurring quite a bit. So people are
putting sculpture with paint as a finished outcome. A lot of people seem to be
heading into installation as well.
And you have to go to a gallery to experience it. You
exactly experience these pieces at home. I don’t know where it goes- and I
don’t know what it does to me either. It doesn’t do anything emotional to me.
And rarely, does anything intellectual to me. I always get a feeling it does
more for the artist than for the people. I thought the more practical sides to
art really paid off and shone at the university exhibition, I thought graphics
was really strong. And photography too. Everything which was applied, was
strong. But certainly, to be a fine artist now, you have to create something
really truly staggering.
And I think people
find it hard to create something that hasn’t been made before..
I find shock art often tries to do that. And I find shock
art a bit of a yawn. In order to shock someone I think the piece has to be
interesting. To be outraged, I think it’s got to have something behind it. The
surrealists were based on shocking people, Dada was based on shocking people.
Really its just a continuation of it, to an extent.
Who’s influenced you,
creatively? Whether that be through Fine Art or in Film?
Well Fine Art; Edvard Munch, absolutely. In Film, François
Truffaut, he was a big influence early on, films like “Tirez Sur Le Pianiste”.
American films, Alec Guinness influenced me- do you know who Alec Guinness is?
No…
Oh- Almighty.. “We come and we go” as Beckett says.. Alec
Guinness was a major actor, he did many of the “Ealing Comedies”?
…
Well you’d only really see them on television now. Um- things
like, “Lavender Hill Mob”, “The Ladykillers”.
I’ve heard of “The
Ladykillers”.
Hmm yes, The original one. Guinness was a big influence on
me, and actors like Paul Schofield. They definitely “influenced” me. In the way
you take a bit of someone elses essence and it helps shape you into who you
are. There’s lots of people I admire, but that’s a different thing.
What film do you have
the fondest memories of working on?
Well actually again, I don’t put one film in competition
with another, but I have done lots of films that I have very specific memories
and feelings of the making of it and indeed, the result. They’re all so
different I wouldn’t like to compare them, there was “The Naked Civil Servant”
and I loved making that, “Midnight Express” I loved making. Some were
comparatively difficult, “The Elephant Man” was very difficult, a long, long,
making. You need to see it, uninterrupted, beginning to end. That’s the
probably with viewing something, its hard getting everyone to sit down and
concentrate, you’ve got to watch something, uninterrupted, no getting up to
make a cup of tea halfway through, it’s not a football match. So in a way, I
think the way to see something, is in the cinema.
[Emma]…Do you reckon
we could convince the film society to put the elephant man on one evening?
[Caitlin] oh yeah!
The interview wrapped
up soon after this, after one last question on what John had been working on
recently, to which he informed us that he had been in America treading the
boards in a Samuel Beckett play, “Krapp’s Last Tape”. The way Hurt talks about
theatre is a remarkable thing to watch, he buzzes excitedly about the times he
has starred in the play previously, and clearly he hasn’t tired of it each
time. His enthusiasm for his craft is noteworthy, the stage is his true
occupation in life. He has shown us that it isn’t easy to find your vocation,
but once you have it you don’t look back.
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| Taaa John! Photo credit to Roseanna Hanson at Dozyphoto |
