Oh, John Hurt. What's occuring?

John Hurt comes to the NUA Gallery for a chat on how his best thoughts are generated in the bathroom, and his first hand experience of the contemporary creative industry.

  

   As John enters the room, Emma and I are undeniably nervous, and this nervousness manifests itself in different ways. I, regretting the coffee I just drank and Emma tapping her foot restlessly on the wooden floorboards. I grin widely at John as he wanders in, he looking a bit taken aback at the manic smile I just brandished at him.

   As Hurt takes a seat at our little conference table, his face lights up at the mixed tray of biscuits placed in front of him, “oooh, choccie biccies!”

   I fumble with the Dictaphone, attaching the wind muffler to the Dictaphone with a false lustre of professionalism, “surely you don’t need that? There’s no wind.” John Hurt recommends, I burble something inaudible in response.

   Briefly John lays down the law on his preferred style of interview etiquette, he expects this to be like a casual chat or a debate, as opposed to a forty five minute long blunt question-answer firing, and me and Emma could not agree more with his wishes.

   John notices his bracelets jangling as he gesticulates expressively, and considerately removes them to stop the noise being picked up on the due recording. In fact, John is quite a snappy dresser overall. He wears a marine blue shirt, a intricately woven green scarf that hangs loosely, wrapped up in a oversized, tweed pea coat.

   The record button is gingerly switched on and I croak my first question to John, and we are first introduced to the actors careful and considered thought process, which is clearly visible on the engrained lines on his face, he answers each question slowly and deliberately, picking apart alternatives and arguments carefully.

How did becoming NUA’s provost and soon-to-be chancellor come about?

Well it came about basically because I got a letter from John Last asking me if I’d like to do that, I was naturally somewhat flattered and at the same time was rather excited by the idea because my origins were, before I became an actor, I was at art school myself in Grimsby and St Martins Art School in London. I tried to paint all through my life, but I cant really call myself a painter because I believe if you’re going to be a painter you should be painting well, all the time. I don’t paint as a hobby, I paint as meaningfully, I hope, as I act. But you need to practice. And I don’t get enough of that really. So I was intrigued by the whole idea, and I think John is a very live wire. Even though “chancellor” is just a title in a sense, I don’t have any power, but I do have the ability to make contributions and say what I think. It is something that interests me hugely, and it still remains to be seen whether I will be of any use or not!

So could you say it is a rewarding role as a former art student?

Well that again, remains to be seen. I hope it will be, and I think it will be, I am definitely encouraged by John Last. He wants comment and he wants input, and I think I could provide a certain amount of that. The driving force of the whole thing is the vice chancellor, the principal. Although on the other hand I want to listen to the students and understand them. It’s a difficult situation because all students by the nature of being students, and by being a new generation, believe that they’re right. So they’re always going to look at you antagonistically and think, “what are you trying to tell us? You’ve had your chance!” Where I think the difficulty will lie will be where people will think they can almost, transcend, being a link in the chain. That’s something you can’t transcend. Anything that is artistic, or scientific for that matter, exists as a result of it’s history. It’s prophetic, it allows a platform to the future, and therefore you are very much a link in the chain. And I hope I can avoid any kind of dictatorial behaviour, because my business is to fan the flames of the enthusiasm of the student band. I’d like to create an atmosphere of self-criticism as well, and criticism between students. I would like to see us get away from what has been prevalent in teaching nowadays, which is the notion that everyone has to be pleased. You should be able to say, as a student, “I’ve made this, I know its not good enough, I haven’t achieved what I set out to achieve” and in that knowledge you can help to shape yourself and give you well, further places to go.

So do you think constructive criticism is a good method to move yourself forward as an artist?

Well yes, a certain amount of instructed criticism is a good thing. I think that debate amongst students is a very good thing also. Topics should be fiercely debated, anything that can bring out those thoughts that one makes in the bathroom, drawing those thoughts out more and more. You sort of think, “if only I could do what I think when I’m in the bathroom” a technique to get these things out of your head, a freeing of your abilities you know, to get freedom from these inhibitions as much as possible.

Did you always create art growing up?

Yeah I think I probably crave art. Maybe due to the fact I was very much bought up without it.  I was bought up in a vicarage, well my mother was a draughtsman, but that’s a very different type of drawing, its like engineering drawing. My father was an engineer before he took the holy orders. But I can say my parents were not inclined to the visual arts at all. But I don’t think I craved art as a boy, I don’t think I understood it yet. Going to art school brought things out in me I didn’t even know existed, I learnt a lot philosophically and in terms of the business side of art. Conceptual art didn’t really exist at that time, I think its often an excuse. But sometimes it can be really fascinating, it can lead to other things, I don’t know. To me, it’s a very tricky area. I come into the art school world quite diffident about it, I’m not dictatorial about it. I cant be, its not in my nature, it’s not what I know, I don’t know enough.

Are there any modern artists you admire?

The most influential artist for me is Edvard Munch. And I don’t just mean the famous “Scream”, even some of his more “conventional” works. I do generally like and lean towards emotional paintings. But one has to be very careful that emotional, abstract paintings are not just an excuse for not drawing. I think drawing is incredibly important because it comes into everything, it certainly comes into conceptual art. It’s a very broad subject, drawing. But drawing is essentially making a mark, that could be totally unique and unlike any other mark. The thing about drawing is that you can really work at it as well, you could spend say, two terms drawing from casts of objects, and get really good at it in that amount of time. But trying to understand something that is in front of you, as a three dimensional piece, is a lifetmes work really, you may never stop.

Did you visit the Munch exhibition at the Tate Modern?

Yes, I did.

Did you like it?

Oh yes, it was wonderful. That’s what I mean about the ephemerality of fine art, you cant apply it. It is what it is. I do wonder where we are though, in the fine arts. And to be honest I don’t think the art world knows quite where it is going. It’s a big, fabulous, massive problem for you lot to work out!

We’ve seen parts of Fine Art merged into other medias, have you seen “Shame” by Steve McQueen?

Yes I have, McQueen is an interesting man too, he’s moved into film. And he’s fairly submerged in it now, especially after “Hunger”, which I feel broke some barriers and was quite brilliant in many ways. But nobody went to see it, its so expensive to make a film. And if nobody goes to see it, you would wonder if there was something you weren’t doing that is enticing people to come and see it, is it just that the audience is not ready for it? How do you lead people to see something like that? I don’t know.

Maybe its all about one person breaking a few rules, and then you have to have another filmmaker jump on the bandwagon with that, it’s like a domino effect.

Yes, and make it palletable, in a sense. That’s happened throughout history. It’s unfortunate to be the man who comes first. Fine art is a difficult road though, in fact, my son is a painter. You’ve chosen just about the most difficult thing to do. It is a sensationally rocky road, and boy, do you have to be prepared for it. We come from reasonally petit-bourgeois backgrounds, and in order to be a painter, one has to forget that and live rougher. I tell you, you are going to be without comforts when it comes to painting. And it’s something you’re going to have to accept if you want to be a Fine Artist. It’s a really tricky old road, and I wouldn’t advise anyone to go into it. I wouldn’t advise anyone, except maybe if they were really, totally, dedicated and really have a talent and know they have this talent, and if they believe they have something to say. It’s not something you toy with.

It’s often hard for undergraduate students to really know what they want to “do”, did you find the path to your true occupation in life was a rocky one?

Well, yes! I wasn’t particularly academic at school myself, and when I told my parents I wanted to be an actor, well, that was completely- well they loved the theatre. But they couldn’t perceive me as one of them. They couldn’t see me up there on stage. It just wasn’t pheasable, but then again my father was a clergyman so you cant be more odd than that! But it was expected of me to get an art degree, then proceed onto teaching, and I could paint, I made painting after painting and I really enjoyed the process of painting. But I couldn’t get it out of my head that this wasn’t quite what I wanted to do. So I made the jump, and that was quite a traumatic period of my life. We all go through those, I think.

Could you say your creativity manifested itself in a dramatic environment when you made that change from Fine Art to Dramatic Art?

Well before I got into the film industry I had to work my way up on the stage as a theatre actor, and honestly I never expected to make films, I became an actor because I wanted to act, and I thought this would always be on stage. I asked myself would I be prepared to be in repertory for the rest of my life and the answer was yes. And I think that’s kind of necessary, it’s a part of the journey, so to speak. And it was necessary for me to know that about myself as well. But things worked out better than that, I’ve been able to work on film, stage, television and radio. I find that one of the joys of being a British actor is that all of these aspects of media are available in London. And right now, I don’t think film knows what it’s doing. The part of film that is interesting me is the independent market. The studios really don’t know what they’re doing. But still, it’s not easy. But it never is.

Did you have quite a wild student life whilst you were studying art?

I didn’t have a particularly wild time at art school, I didn’t really have the money above everything else. But St. Martins did provide some of the best parties in London, well St. Martins and the Royal College [of art].

Do you have any funny or embarrassing stories?

Well I remember turning up to one party and nobody had any clothes on at all! In that kind of situation you either leave or stay and I stayed.

Was that the sixties by any chance?

Nearly, it was 1959. The fifties were drab in comparison, this country was penniless. You would only need to look at the photographs to see what people were wearing, they’d look as though they had all been to the thrift shop. Even the top boys would be in crumpled suits. And its funny because I think people today try to effect this look through their fashions, and I don’t think you really can effect that because these people were trying to look as good as they could. There was no money. Society is far better off now than it was then, but I don’t know if we’re any happier.

John looking moodily into the distance. Photo Credit to Roseanna Hanson at Dozyphoto

It’s a different kind of happiness, a secure happiness in which we feel safe. But through this security I don’t think we’re as free as we were at another point in history.

And I don’t know if we really have the right to feel that safety. We all seem to feel reasonably safe in a very unsafe period of time.

On that sort of topic, of the UK’s economy; how do you feel about the arts cuts that are meant to be enforced in the future?

Oooh that’s a very tricky one.. Well I think certain things would feel the pinch. You might not be able to have tables like this [the table we are sat at], you may have to make do with something else. Frankly I don’t think it’s going to make any difference to the creativity. Obviously one wants to get as much as you can, and there would be things you wouldn’t be able to do, you wouldn’t be able to have the chocolate biscuits [the chocolate biscuits on the table]. Thankyou very much [he takes a chocolate biscuit]. It would make a difference to the computerized side of the art world, you wouldn’t be able to provide so many shiny Macs. Well back in the day we lived in real poverty, and no one really complained about it. I want to avoid the whole “back in my day” talk [we all laugh] but that’s the way it was and you didn’t really complain about it. And there was far less money in the arts then.

So you could argue that lack of funding could encourage creativity in a way?

I think that’s arguable, yeah! We’ve got to let them think that it’s important that we stay important.

Do you think a lot of people maybe don’t take art that seriously, because it’s less academic?

No, if push comes to shove if you have a piece of paper and a pencil then you will be alright! And maybe some sort of paint? Mind you, paint is so expensive now. Then again, you can make your own paint. But now a lot of art isn’t to do with paint, paint is a bit of an odd commodity in some people’s minds isn’t it? And naturally, with the advent of the electronic world, that’s really going to change things. I mean, photography changed things like crazy at one stage. But um- electronics have changed things hugely. And presumably will continue to do so. I don’t know what the future of paint is!

As our uni used to be Norwich School of Painting, we have a lot of painters here. Theres a whole floor of them in fact.

Really? I wouldn’t have thought so from the last exhibition, I thought Fine Art was the least well represented. And oddly enough I thought Film was rather poor. Animation was interesting, but you would expect that from an arts school. But Film I thought was- by no means, on top or ahead of it. I thought- hello. We could help here a bit! [he pauses] What do you think about paint? Do you think its like, an illuminated Print? Its had it’s day?

I don’t know I think the boundaries between practices are blurring quite a bit. So people are putting sculpture with paint as a finished outcome. A lot of people seem to be heading into installation as well.

And you have to go to a gallery to experience it. You exactly experience these pieces at home. I don’t know where it goes- and I don’t know what it does to me either. It doesn’t do anything emotional to me. And rarely, does anything intellectual to me. I always get a feeling it does more for the artist than for the people. I thought the more practical sides to art really paid off and shone at the university exhibition, I thought graphics was really strong. And photography too. Everything which was applied, was strong. But certainly, to be a fine artist now, you have to create something really truly staggering.

And I think people find it hard to create something that hasn’t been made before..

I find shock art often tries to do that. And I find shock art a bit of a yawn. In order to shock someone I think the piece has to be interesting. To be outraged, I think it’s got to have something behind it. The surrealists were based on shocking people, Dada was based on shocking people. Really its just a continuation of it, to an extent.

Who’s influenced you, creatively? Whether that be through Fine Art or in Film?

Well Fine Art; Edvard Munch, absolutely. In Film, François Truffaut, he was a big influence early on, films like “Tirez Sur Le Pianiste”. American films, Alec Guinness influenced me- do you know who Alec Guinness is?

No…

Oh- Almighty.. “We come and we go” as Beckett says.. Alec Guinness was a major actor, he did many of the “Ealing Comedies”?

…

Well you’d only really see them on television now. Um- things like, “Lavender Hill Mob”, “The Ladykillers”.

I’ve heard of “The Ladykillers”.

Hmm yes, The original one. Guinness was a big influence on me, and actors like Paul Schofield. They definitely “influenced” me. In the way you take a bit of someone elses essence and it helps shape you into who you are. There’s lots of people I admire, but that’s a different thing.

What film do you have the fondest memories of working on?

Well actually again, I don’t put one film in competition with another, but I have done lots of films that I have very specific memories and feelings of the making of it and indeed, the result. They’re all so different I wouldn’t like to compare them, there was “The Naked Civil Servant” and I loved making that, “Midnight Express” I loved making. Some were comparatively difficult, “The Elephant Man” was very difficult, a long, long, making. You need to see it, uninterrupted, beginning to end. That’s the probably with viewing something, its hard getting everyone to sit down and concentrate, you’ve got to watch something, uninterrupted, no getting up to make a cup of tea halfway through, it’s not a football match. So in a way, I think the way to see something, is in the cinema.

[Emma]…Do you reckon we could convince the film society to put the elephant man on one evening?

[Caitlin] oh yeah!

The interview wrapped up soon after this, after one last question on what John had been working on recently, to which he informed us that he had been in America treading the boards in a Samuel Beckett play, “Krapp’s Last Tape”. The way Hurt talks about theatre is a remarkable thing to watch, he buzzes excitedly about the times he has starred in the play previously, and clearly he hasn’t tired of it each time. His enthusiasm for his craft is noteworthy, the stage is his true occupation in life. He has shown us that it isn’t easy to find your vocation, but once you have it you don’t look back.

Taaa John! Photo credit to Roseanna Hanson at Dozyphoto